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How to Subscription and ACL

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9 months 1 week ago - 9 months 1 week ago #46769 by Emiliano Bertoli
Hi guys,
I don't understand How Jomres manage the property managers ACL.
Here I see a guide to activate a Subscription plugin, but I want something more integrated with joomla ACL and I'm not able to find a Jomres Option table where set permission.

Practically I just want set options for property managers and assign them to an ACL joomla usergroup.
(So, only the registered users assigned to that joomla usergroup will become "property managers").
Then I want to use the HikaSubscription to simply buy and manage Subscriptions assigning users to the right ACL joomla usergroup.

Please, Can you help me on understing it ?
Last edit: 9 months 1 week ago by Emiliano Bertoli.
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9 months 1 week ago #46772 by Rodrigo Rocco
Hi, Jomres subscriptions has nothing to do with Joomla ACL. You create subscriptions packages ( www.jomres.net/manual/site-managers-guid...ubscription-packages ) that property managers are able to purchase in order to able a ble to list their properties.

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9 months 1 week ago - 9 months 1 week ago #46776 by Emiliano Bertoli
Hi Rocco,

1 - thanks for reply and the link. So, as far as I understend, Jomres do not work with Joomla ACL, but has like "an internal ACL system" permissions established from "Subscription Packages".
For Joomla all users: "property managers", "normal users" etc. are all "Registered" (usergroup) users, no more.
Am I right ?

2 - If so, I find it a little bit funny, not so Joomla integrated.
Are there any plans to change this management system on Jomres roadmap ?

3 - So, to have:

Practically I just want set options for property managers and assign them to an ACL joomla usergroup.
(So, only the registered users assigned to that joomla usergroup will become "property managers").
Then I want to use the HikaSubscription to simply buy and manage Subscriptions assigning users to the right ACL joomla usergroup.

and avoid the Jomres Subscription I should build an HikaSubscription plugin the add / delete Registered users to the Subscription Packages, Am I right ?
Please, Do you have any guide / API / suggestments where to learn on how to do it and so on ?

Thanks for help on understanding !
Last edit: 9 months 1 week ago by Emiliano Bertoli.
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9 months 1 week ago #46777 by Vince Wooll
1. Yes. Jomres access control predates the Joomla Access Control by several years, we had to develop it because Joomla didn't have it at the time. Now that Jomres works in both Wordpress and Joomla using the same codebase this has evolved into an advantage for us because we don't need to adapt to two different access control scenarios, we can use our own.

2. See above.

3. I've never tried it, so I don't know have easy or hard it would be to do. I don't think that there's a specific need to use Hika, it would be easiest to use the Jomres subs code instead, is there any specific reason why you're against using Jomres subs?

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9 months 1 week ago #46778 by Emiliano Bertoli
Hi Away,
thanks for explanations. I understand you, but as joomler Ihave to say: "I like integrations and no hacks".

3 - Yes, the reason is that "as Portal owner" I'm selling all my online services through HikaShop and all my Invoices / Administration / Statistics are managed through HikaShop (and we are implementing an online account manager like "QuickBooks".
Have to manage them separately should be a problem for us...
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9 months 1 week ago #46779 by Vince Wooll
And how do you intend to monitise Jomres within this arrangement?

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9 months 1 week ago #46780 by Emiliano Bertoli
...Logically in this way and at this moment for us (the portal) we should think only on "a fixed monthly Subscription" (HikaSubscription) depending on "Subscription Packages", something like (just an example):
Manager basic - 10 USD - 1 Property - 10 Rooms (maximum)
Manager top - 100 USD - illimited Property - illimited Rooms

No Fees, No Commisions for us (portal).
Maybe, managing Fees and Commisions into Jomres (internally) for all Agents and so on...

But really, in my vision, a Booking system should think only on Bookings and an eCommerce to Fees, Commissions, Payments Gatways, Taxes, Invoices...
--- As HikaShop user I hope in a "cut off" of the Jomres Booking to make a Booking & Resevation App for HikaShop / HikaMarket (multi vendor) - (and other opens eCommerce).
--- As well as Joomla (Custom Fields) and Seblod user I think that "Articles" (Categories) / "Custom Fields" / CCK should not be an HikaShop question (and Jomres), while all "products" Should be simply a Joomla Article (standard Custom Fields and/or Seblod integrated), no more. Like j2store:
www.j2store.org/support/user-guide/introduction.html
www.j2store.org/support/user-guide/seblod.html

To each one its work...
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9 months 1 week ago #46781 by Vince Wooll

Emiliano Bertoli wrote: But really, in my vision, a Booking system should think only on Bookings and an eCommerce to Fees, Commissions, Payments Gatways, Taxes, Invoices...
--- As HikaShop user I hope in a "cut off" of the Jomres Booking to make a Booking & Resevation App for HikaShop / HikaMarket (multi vendor) - (and other opens eCommerce).
--- As well as Joomla (Custom Fields) and Seblod user I think that "Articles" (Categories) / "Custom Fields" / CCK should not be an HikaShop question (and Jomres), while all "products" Should be simply a Joomla Article (standard Custom Fields and/or Seblod integrated), no more. Like j2store:


I think you're under-estimating just how incredibly complicated a booking engine is. It's not just listing properties, searching for availability and setting prices.

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9 months 1 week ago #46782 by Emiliano Bertoli

Emiliano Bertoli wrote: ...Logically in this way and at this moment for us (the portal) we should think only on "a fixed monthly Subscription" (HikaSubscription) that assign users to Jomres "Subscription Packages", something like (just an example):
Manager basic - 10 USD - 1 Property - 10 Rooms (maximum)
Manager top - 100 USD - illimited Property - illimited Rooms

No Fees, No Commisions for us (portal).
Maybe, managing Fees and Commisions into Jomres (internally) for all Agents and so on...


Please, What do you think about ?
Do you have any suggestment for doing it ?
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9 months 1 week ago #46783 by Rodrigo Rocco
IMHO this makes no sense to me as it is overcomplicate, I think you should decide if you want to go for Jomres or Hikashop rather make a mix of box, Jomres is able to manage subscriptions, invoices and obviously an advanced booking engine.

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9 months 1 week ago #46784 by Vince Wooll
I can totally understand Emilianto's viewpoint. He's got hikashop, everything he does goes through it and now he wants to add the ability to charge users for listing their properties on it.

The problem is that there are so many ways that property managers can be charged, and every aspect of that requires a deep linking of the stuff that's going on in Jomres. I've had a dig though the hikashop documentation, and can't find anything that suggests that that kind of deep linking is possible. I'm happy to be proven wrong and it would be great to link up with hika but I don't see any evidence at this point that it's doable.

That's why it seems to me that it's simpler to just use the Jomres subs functionality.

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9 months 1 week ago #46785 by Emiliano Bertoli
Hi guys,
I respect too much the work of other people, so, please, take my words just as a point of view:

1 - the need to have only one "Invoicing" system is a real question on a lot of countries. Here, for example, the law ask me to have only one progressive numeration for invoices.
Then, there are a lot of advantages for the portal admin like to have all statistics together etc. Could happen also that a manager take a commision for that and another commision for another service.
I don't want here write about Payments Gateways that for me should not be the work of Jomres developers.
This is valid not only for me and HikaShop, but also for all other peoples that use its own eCommerce/Subscription component.

2 - Now, HikaShop is the eCommerce I mentioned and over HikaShop we can install HikaSubscription Add-on that is the "Pro" version of HikaSerial that manage also subscriptions. In this way is always the default HikaShop that manage all the Commission, Fees, Payments, Products, Statistics etc.
Now, HikaSerial have a developer documentation that, as far as I understand, is not yet been upgraded with HikaSubscription.
I asked for help here .

3 - Anyway I think this is an hybrid solution. I mean, in my opinion should be Jomres to be integrated with standard Joomla ACL through a Permission option tab, no the other Components to need to be integrated with the (old need, as you explaned) internal Jomres ACL...

Thanks for attention...
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9 months 1 week ago #46786 by Vince Wooll
As I said before, I do understand your position.

Emiliano Bertoli wrote: no the other Components to need to be integrated with the (old need, as you explaned) internal Jomres ACL...


I did explain, there are levels of complexity that you're not understanding. For example the Jomres system allows property managers to create N numbers of published properties. It also allows different subscriptions to have different features, so one subscription can allow payment through payment gateways whereas another does not.

You yourself said that you want a manager to be limited to N number of rooms in a property ( not something that Jomres supports out of the box).

For any system to limit property managers from adding more properties or rooms, or configuring gateways, that system needs to be tightly integrated with the code that's going on in Jomres. Whilst it's possible to do it with Jomres you're the only person so far who's asked for it. If there were a lot of people asking about it, I'd certainly be interested in pursuing it.

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9 months 1 week ago #46787 by Emiliano Bertoli

Vince Wooll wrote: I did explain, there are levels of complexity that you're not understanding. For example the Jomres system allows property managers to create N numbers of published properties. It also allows different subscriptions to have different features, so one subscription can allow payment through payment gateways whereas another does not.

You yourself said that you want a manager to be limited to N number of rooms in a property ( not something that Jomres supports out of the box)


This is why I wrote: "...through a Permission option tab..."

Now, maybe, a quick solution could be to be able to assign each "Subscription Package" to a specific (exclusive) joomla usergroup. Joomla can create all the usergroups I want.
In this way all the Subscriptions components will be compatible and can avoid the Jomres subscriptions.
Logically the Price / Frequency / Renewal etc. fields should be reflected in the Subscription component...

What do you think about ?
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9 months 3 days ago #46789 by Emiliano Bertoli
Hi guys,
Do you have an answer to my previous post also with respect to the reply I received on HikaShop forum, for which I would like to reply only after receiving this your answer / opinion

Emiliano Bertoli wrote: This is why I wrote: "...through a Permission option tab..."

Now, maybe, a quick solution could be to be able to assign each "Subscription Package" to a specific (exclusive) joomla usergroup. Joomla can create all the usergroups I want.
In this way all the Subscriptions components will be compatible and can avoid the Jomres subscriptions.
Logically the Price / Frequency / Renewal etc. fields should be reflected in the Subscription component...

What do you think about ?

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8 months 3 weeks ago #46818 by Emiliano Bertoli
Hi guys,
Please, What do you think about ?
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8 months 3 weeks ago #46825 by Vince Wooll
One way to do it would be to have a j00001xxxx script that analyses the called url, pulls information out of the Jomres database and compare it to the hika plans.

Let's say that the subscriber wants to create a new property. The 00001 script would look at the hika plan, find out if the subscriber's plan allows them to create properties, and if not then redirect the user to the relevant hika subscription page. This could be done in the script by calling

$task = get_shwotime("task");
if ($task == "new_property") {
$thisJRUser = jomres_singleton_abstract::getInstance('jr_user');
// then using $thisJRUser->id (which is the cms user's id) you would call whatever hika classes/functions are available to find the user's plan and what that includes. Assuming that an allowed variable was returned, and a redirect url if not allowed then...
if (!$allowed) {
jomresRedirect($subscription_url);
}
}

That is, obviously, something of a simplification, but it's doable so long as the plans requirements are easy to resolve by looking at the called tasks. If you wanted to limit the number of properties in a subscription, then you'd extend it further by checking the existing properties assigned to that user....etc.

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8 months 3 weeks ago #46829 by Emiliano Bertoli
Hi Vince,
many thanks for suggestment, too appreciate.
But my last question was different and with the intention of finding a default solution valid for everyone:

Now, maybe, a quick solution could be to be able to assign each "Subscription Package" to a specific (exclusive) joomla usergroup. Joomla can create all the usergroups I want.
In this way all the Subscriptions components will be compatible and can avoid the Jomres subscriptions.
Logically the Price / Frequency / Renewal etc. fields should be reflected in the Subscription component...

What do you think about ?

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8 months 3 weeks ago #46830 by Vince Wooll
You're missing my point. You haven't answered the most basic question : What do you want to limit subscribers TO ? What should they have to pay for?

Once you've determined that, then you can determine the best way to approach the problem. As we said before, if it's something simple like "create a new property" ( without any other conditions) then the method I mentioned is sufficient. If you want to start getting fancy then you would need to do much more work.

Whatever the problem is that you want to resolve, then you will be in a better position to find a solution, but that solution will always need to interact with Jomres to let things get done ( or not).

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8 months 3 weeks ago #46831 by Emiliano Bertoli

Emiliano Bertoli wrote: Hi Away,
thanks for explanations. I understand you, but as joomler Ihave to say: "I like integrations and no hacks".

3 - Yes, the reason is that "as Portal owner" I'm selling all my online services through HikaShop and all my Invoices / Administration / Statistics are managed through HikaShop (and we are implementing an online account manager like "QuickBooks".
Have to manage them separately should be a problem for us...

PROBLEM: here in Panama all the portal invoices and all customers invoices need to have an unique numbering, for all services.
So, right now the invoice numbering is established from HikaShop / HikaMarket.
With HikaSubscription I can assign users to a specific joomla usergroup.
So, if jomres would works in a "standard" joomla way, assigning Jomres Subs Packaging to a specific usergroup, the problem will be solved by default.
Or, we can think on develop an HikaSubscription plugin to switch on / switch off the Jomres Subs Packaging.


Emiliano Bertoli wrote: ...Logically in this way and at this moment for us (the portal) we should think only on "a fixed monthly Subscription" (HikaSubscription) depending on "Subscription Packages", something like (just an example):
Manager basic - 10 USD - 1 Property - 10 Rooms (maximum)
Manager top - 100 USD - illimited Property - illimited Rooms

No Fees, No Commisions for us (portal).
Maybe, managing Fees and Commisions into Jomres (internally) for all Agents and so on...

[/u]
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8 months 3 weeks ago #46833 by Vince Wooll

Emiliano Bertoli wrote: (HikaSubscription) depending on "Subscription Packages", something like (just an example):
Manager basic - 10 USD - 1 Property - 10 Rooms (maximum)
Manager top - 100 USD - illimited Property - illimited Rooms


You're still failing to understand the most basic point which I've been trying to make. You still need a mechanism that is capable of understanding whether or not the manager has X properties with Y rooms. That has nothing to do with ACL. It's this mechanism that would need to be triggered by Hika or Jomres, and then hook into Hika.

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Developed and maintained by Vince Wooll and Aladar Barthi, Jomres was initially conceived in early 2005 as a Mambo based solution to a client’s hotel management needs. While it wasn't originally expected to be an online booking system it quickly morphed into one as users requested more and more features.

As the number of feature requests grew Vince knew that he would need to dedicate more time to the project and in July 2005 Jomres was formally released as a commercial project. Since then, Jomres has become one of Mambo’s, and now Joomla’s, longest running projects. It has survived various versions of Mambo, then Joomla 1.0, 1.5, 1.6, 1.7, 2.5 and 3.

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